Ep 14: Interview with Jeff Sebo, author of The Moral Circle
We are happy to introduce our first interview episode with Jeff Sebo, author of The Moral Circle: Who Matters, What Matters, and Why
In this interview, philosopher Jeff Sebo joins Devs and Vasile to explore the expanding moral circle — from insects and AI to plants and fungi —and how these questions intersect with strategy, policy, and everyday action.
We discuss the risks of insect farming, the taboo of plant consideration, and how vegan ethics can evolve beyond charismatic mammals without losing focus. Most importantly, we ask: How do we win? What does it take to build a movement that balances radical vision with pragmatic action?
Jeff offers a rare combination of philosophical humility and policy-savvy realism. Whether you’re an abolitionist or a reformer, a writer or an activist, this episode will challenge and inspire you to reflect on your role in the struggle for liberation.
episode notes:
About Jeff:
Jeff Sebo is Associate Professor of Environmental Studies, Affiliated Professor of Bioethics, Medical Ethics, Philosophy, and Law, Director of the Center for Environmental and Animal Protection, Director of the Center for Mind, Ethics, and Policy, and Co-Director of the Wild Animal Welfare Program at New York University. His research focuses on animal minds, ethics, and policy; AI minds, ethics, and policy; and global health and climate ethics and policy. He is the author of The Moral Circle and Saving Animals, Saving Ourselves and co-author of Chimpanzee Rights and Food, Animals, and the Environment. He is also a board member at Minding Animals International, an advisory board member at the Insect Welfare Research Society, an advisor at Eleos AI, and a senior affiliate at the Institute for Law & AI. In 2024 Vox included him on its Future Perfect 50 list of "thinkers, innovators, and changemakers who are working to make the future a better place."
About The Moral Circle:
Today, human exceptionalism is the norm. Despite occasional nods to animal welfare, we prioritize humanity, often neglecting the welfare of a vast number of beings. As a result, we use hundreds of billions of vertebrates and trillions of invertebrates every year for a variety of purposes, often unnecessarily. We also plan to use animals, AI systems, and other nonhumans at even higher levels in the future. Yet as the dominant species, humanity has a responsibility to ask: Which nonhumans matter, how much do they matter, and what do we owe them in a world reshaped by human activity and technology?
In The Moral Circle, Jeff Sebo challenges us to include all potentially significant beings in our moral community, with transformative implications for our lives and societies. This book explores provocative case studies such as lawsuits over captive elephants and debates over factory-farmed insects, and compels us to consider future ethical quandaries, such as whether to send microbes to new planets, and whether to create virtual worlds filled with digital minds. Taking an expansive view of human responsibility, Sebo argues that building a positive future requires radically rethinking our place in the world.
Resources Mentioned:
Jeff’s article: Toward a Global Ban on Industrial Animal Agriculture by 2050
Sunaura Taylor, Beasts of Burden and Disabled Ecologies
Becca Franks’ work on fish welfare
Connect + Take Action:
Consider how your actions impact even the smallest beings—and where uncertainty calls for compassion.
Reflect on where *you* fit in this movement. You don’t need to do everything. Just something.
Join us as we keep asking the hard questions about what liberation means—and how we win.
